Curse

Crom The Pale · Feb 26, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

What I think we needed was a set of secondary proff skills that really worked only as secondary skills and more defined primary skills that were not useable by other proffessions.

quickmonty · Feb 26, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoll

[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill]

Epic combo

Jetdoc · Feb 26, 2008, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

ArenaNet said that the secondary skill system was originally implemented to parallel Magic: The Gathering and its tendency to feature deck using two colors of mana. However, unlike MtG, in GW you need to invest a lot of resources into a secondary profession, specifically attribute points and skill slots. (in MtG, usuing a second color takes no more effort than only using one).

In order to use 90% of the cards of another color, you have to have enough land cards in your hand that have that color. That's the same concept of the attribute investment in GW, IMO.

Turtle222 · Feb 26, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

secondary professions will never be left out in gw2, but yes i agree, more focus should be developed on the primary aspect, as 7/8 skills are usually primary with a secondary used as utility etc.

Van Goghs Ear · Feb 26, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

the secondary profession usually only plays the role of utility and thus does not require a large investment. For example:

A deathpact hammer warrior
A glyph renewal or glyph energy gale dom mesmer
A cripshot with mending touch, or the old blackout cripshot to deny warrior adren
A glyph monk for aegis cancel spamming

However there are some builds that require more investment, or often times the primary class profession's exclusive attribute is deemed more desirable than the other primary attribute. For example:

Fast cast nuker, fast cast anything
Thumper or assassin ranger
The old N/Rt before the nerf to soul reaping, etc, etc

Then there are some that just find more of a balance between secondary and primary such as the mindblast E/D or a conjure warrior.

kazjun · Feb 26, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

One major opportunity GW1 missed out on was to have sets of skills particular to certain primary/secondary combinations; having w/n only skills, or mo/rt only skills would have gone a long way to make players feel more individual and versatile. Right now, the only reason to use a combination is for a certain secondary profession skill, and that's it. If a w/n could get "death knight" skills, and a mo/rt could get "divine spiritualist" skills, it would really add a lot more flavor to the game.

Me like. Though I guess all my warr typically carries is plague touch and necrosis. I'd like class combination specific armour too, but I guess that would be a bit too complicated with all the possible class combos to have armours for each type. Though the thought of deathknight armour is just drool worthy.

As far as secondaries goes, better to have the choice and choose not to than to have no choice at all. And yes there are skills which seem to make other classes 'unneeded' (though you can do duncan without swap) but I reckon that's more a case of a skill needing to be moved into into a primary profession to limit who can actually use it. I remember when critical agility first came out, my warr jumped on it like ele's jumped on to SF. Then they changed it to vary in duration with critical strikes and I haven't used it since. Though I don't reckon swap should be changed just cause of duncans.

Buster · Feb 26, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Secondary professions are clearly not needed to make a successful character. Most of my characters only use a secondary just for a rez, my ss necro I only use arcane echo just to echo ss. Not against secondary professions at all. For example, if they gave warrior a skill to remove conditions or hexes would they really need to go w/mo ? Probably not. I even think if they did away with secondary professions less skills would be altered and people would enjoy more balanced play.

majikmajikmajik · Feb 26, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

you also just compared a game that cost $40-$210 for unlimited profession and skill combinations to a card game that can cost $0-$400 for 60 cards

Zinger314 · Feb 26, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik

you also just compared a game that cost $40-$210 for unlimited profession and skill combinations to a card game that can cost $0-$400 for 60 cards

Indeed.

Quote:

Will I remain competitive if I do not buy the chapters? Will I be able to compete with and against others if I have only some of the Guild Wars chapters?

Yes. Purchasing the newer chapters of Guild Wars will not make you strictly more powerful. You will have access to many more strategic options, due to the expanding nature of the skills, abilities, items and professions that you enjoy with each chapter. It would be similar to building a deck in Magic: The Gathering: The more cards you own, the greater the number of different playing decks you can choose to play. When you buy the chapters of Guild Wars, you will acquire a larger collection of skills and abilities from which to build your skill set, but you will not gain more power. So if you purchase a chapter and your friend does not, you will still be able to play competitively against and with one another.

I believe there are other quotes, but that one is clear. (and ironically, wrong)

I also ROFL at the concept of MtG being more limited than Guild Wars. There's atleast 150 well-balanced cards every three months, and that's only the secondary sets...

Van Goghs Ear · Feb 26, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Secondary professions are clearly not needed to make a successful character. Most of my characters only use a secondary just for a rez, my ss necro I only use arcane echo just to echo ss. Not against secondary professions at all. For example, if they gave warrior a skill to remove conditions or hexes would they really need to go w/mo ? Probably not. I even think if they did away with secondary professions less skills would be altered and people would enjoy more balanced play.

actually, in many cases it's the secondary class that DOES provide the balance. I realize at times there are unfortunate combos that can be imbalanced, but take a warrior for example.

As a Warrior/Dervish I can pack viable enchantment removal and self healing options for myself. However by having the added bonus of enchant removal, I lose the benefit that say a W/Mo might have with self condition and hex removal. If I go Warrior/Ele, I can potentially bring more damage with conjures, but then I lose the utility I get from the other classes. As a warrior mesmer I can use ranged interrupts, and passive hex removal, but then I lose those other utilities, and so on. If you just gave warriors all that utility without having to limit themselves to just a certain amount of it, you would start to come into balance issues.

fenix · Feb 26, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

[skill]Gale[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill]

I <3 2005.

Best ever. Seriously, W/E's were leet.

As for secondaries, having them allows for a lot of imba builds, but without them most bars would be a lot more suckier.

WinterSnowblind · Feb 26, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoll

[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill]

That reminds me of how often I see Zhed using Arcane Echo on Echo.. The fool.

Jennie · Feb 26, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

I hope instead of secondary professions they just concentrate on species bonus. Like different things for norn, human, asura ect. with the ability to choose a primary profession. No need for secondary as enough diversity would be provided.

Nyktos · Feb 26, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Cards of your second colour in Magic take up deck slots just as much as second profession skills take up skill slots in GW.

Phaern Majes · Feb 26, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Plenty of anti-condition monk skills that are great for warriors. [skill]Mending touch[/skill] ftw.

Lykan · Feb 26, 2008, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

99% of the builds I make (and also see) use only skills from the Primary profession.

Don't PvP much do you.

The secondary system is great and it better be in GW2.

U Wanna Die · Feb 26, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Don't you realize that not 99.99% of builds only use one profession and more like maybe 50% if that do.

gremlin · Feb 26, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

The present skill system depends on secondary classes so we have to use those skills as they tend to make a more effective build than using one class.
This is not true for all classes some are pretty good just using their own skills.

I agree with the comments about more skills that are primary only and cannot be taken as secondary skills, so yes an expansion of the prime skill attribute where many of the best and most powerful skills use the primary attribute.
An Elementalist/* should always be far better at those skills than a */Elementalist.

Maybe the idea of free form characters mooted for GW2 where you have a free choice at the characters start then each choice limits future choices.
ie
Heavy armour would stop you using the more complicated and powerful spells or you couldn't use a bow easily in a full helm and armoured gauntlets.

Immersing yourself in death rituals might affect your ability to heal effectively and so on.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 26, 2008, 01:48 AM // 01:48

So... let me get this straight: you guys want the optional second profession removed, because it is useless and overpowered at the same time?

Frankly I don't understand what the beef is here.

Buster · Feb 26, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

actually, in many cases it's the secondary class that DOES provide the balance. I realize at times there are unfortunate combos that can be imbalanced, but take a warrior for example.

As a Warrior/Dervish I can pack viable enchantment removal and self healing options for myself. However by having the added bonus of enchant removal, I lose the benefit that say a W/Mo might have with self condition and hex removal. If I go Warrior/Ele, I can potentially bring more damage with conjures, but then I lose the utility I get from the other classes. As a warrior mesmer I can use ranged interrupts, and passive hex removal, but then I lose those other utilities, and so on. If you just gave warriors all that utility without having to limit themselves to just a certain amount of it, you would start to come into balance issues.

True but look at it this way. Would the conjure line for elementalists ever be alterted if warriors were unable to use the conjure line ? No.

Would the inspiration line of the mesmer be altered every skills change if we did not have secondary professions ? No.

Would we ever get the soul reaping change if people in HA didnt abuse spiritway or those N/RT healing builds ? No.

Can every class still do good damage and be successful GW if we didn't have secondary professions ? Absoloutely.

I'm not against secondary classes at all but look at all the skills in the past 2 years that have been altered due to the fact classes were able to have a secondary which actually weakened classes. I think they should limit the amout of points one can put into a secondary class to be honest. This way you can still have use of a secondary and yet still not have to worry about builds/skills always needing balance changes.